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Hi All,
I appreciate that a number of folks have asked about contributing to a forum fundraiser to defer the licensing and operating costs. I will be posting something in a month or two with options for contributing. I took care of all the initial costs of out pocket for now to ensure we are covered in the transition. More to follow in the New Year.
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Steve
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New CR Diesels on 28

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  • New CR Diesels on 28

    I am thinking seriously of getting a new 28, having had a 25 several years ago. I am spoiled by the speed of the big center console I have had for a ew years now and was wondering if anyone has any experience in a 28 with the new much higher output common rail Diesels. I am not sure if Mac still rigs with Cummins, but for example the 250 hp four cylinder that used to be in a lot of 28s can now be had in common rail with up to 350 hp rating. The Volvo D6 has ratings up to 435 hp now (!!).

    Are there any owners out there with these higher hp motors? I would ask the factory but I have to say that when it comes to performance, the real world is the only thing that counts.

    Not looking for crazy speed, but I would like to be able to cruise comfortably at 30-32 kts on those rare smooth water days, not the typical 25-26 I think is the norm for 28s.

    Also I would expect to go with a "light" boat with no generator and no tower, which I assume should add at least a knot to the cruise versus a boat with a tower.

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Common rails

    The QSB Cummins will not fit in the 28 (they are too wide). The 4B250 Cummins was a four cylinder 3.9l block is not availble in a Q marine format. Cummins is working on a newer generation of Common Rail, small form factor diesels that will probably see the light of day in 2 - 3 years (these are not the QSD series that is a VM motor with a Cummins top end and fuel system). The QSD motors now that Cummins has had their influence on them for a couple of years are performing well in other boats and I would not be surprised to see some pop up in a CC28 if a customer wants them. The motors in this line we are looking at are the QSD320s which should push the boat well.


    The Volvo D4 260s push the boat well (probably 28 knots on a boat equipped as you state)and the D6 310s push the boat to 30 knots at cruise on a no tower no genset boat. D4s go to 300 this year and will most likely perform near the D6 310 specs . . .The D6 435 will not be put in the 28 -- you could never get enough wheel under the boat to use the power.
    Tres

    http://www.virginiabeachboats.net
    http://www.specialtyproducts.net

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    • #3
      310 is sufficient in the 28

      I have an 06 with 310 hp volvo D-6's. The boat is a hardtop and has no generator. She will cruise 30kts (@3150) and top out at 35kts (@3550). Those performance numbers are with 5 guys, full fuel, full ice, and all the tackle the boat will carry.

      With that said, I agree with Tswann's earlier post. There are very few days that I can actually use all my horsepower. I find the boat runs best between 26-28 knots depending on sea conditions. I fish off the coast of North Carolina and about 95% of my trips I never run the boat over 3000 rpms, except in the intercoastal waterway.

      Like you, I also had a large center console prior to having this particular 28. The 28 is a heavy boat and she likes to run deep in the water even at high speeds, not up on top like a center console. The 28 will perform well with the D4's and slightly bigger diesel engines, however, anything over 325 hp will likely not be a good fit for this boat. So, when you look at the 28 do not expect to have a super fast boat like a center console. What you can expect to have is a heavy boat that will perform exceptionally in rough water while running and also a boat that will troll much more comfortably than most large center consoles.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Tswann View Post
        ......Cummins is working on a newer generation of Common Rail, small form factor diesels that will probably see the light of day in 2 - 3 years (these are not the QSD series that is a VM motor with a Cummins top end and fuel system). The QSD motors now that Cummins has had their influence on them for a couple of years are performing well in other boats and I would not be surprised to see some pop up in a CC28 if a customer wants them.......
        Tswann,

        I was interested enough a while back in the QSD I emailed Keith Privott and asked a few questions about it and he gave me permission to repost his resposes............here is the old post:



        As I was navigating CC's new website I noticed they were posting all the engine options for the various models. The standard offerings for the CC28 were Crusader 6.0 375HP gas.....D4 260hp Volvo diesel.....315hp Yanmar diesel.......and D6 310hp Volvo diesel. This got me to thinking with everything going tier-2 and electronic was there a Cummins that would work well.I did some looking and found that the QSD-4.2 liter seemed to be a good fit. I was also curious about conflicting answers I have gotten with regard to the possible fitment of certain combinations of engines, extra fuel and generators. I emailed CC and as most owners will atest they were superior in responding to my questions and did so in a rapid manner. I asked Keith if it was okay if I shared our Q&A with the board and he said that was fine as I let people know these were general answers and that the usual disclaimers were in force ie...specifications subject to change...etc.etc.....he said call him if reguarding any specific situation.

        So here it goes.............

        My first email to Keith........

        I have two questions reguarding the CC28 that I would appreciate your comments on.

        #1) I was curious if the Cummins QSD-4.2 was ever considered for powering the CC28.I now this would add require yet another "setup", in adddition to the current four,but it seems to be a good fit to me. From what I can tell it is a little bigger and heavier than than Yanmar but smaller and lighter than the Volvo D6. With the availabilty of Cummins service and offerings in 320 and 350 hp it just seems like an excellent chioce.

        #2) I have gotten conflicting answers reguarding the ability to combine the following options; six cylinder diesel engines, extended range diesel fuel tanks and auxiliarry generators. I have heard every answer possible, if you get a six it's no generator and no fuel,six and fuel but no generator, six and generator with no fuel.......etc. etc..... so what combinations are possible. I know there have been some minor changes to the engine bay so if the year of the boat changes the answer I would appreciate knowing that also.

        Keith's response to e-mail#1......

        >>>"The QSD - 4.2 is not listed on our price sheet, but if someone wanted us to build one we would. We have looked at the measurements and requirements on the engine and they seem to fall in line with what we are currently building."

        >>>"As for the engine room layout, you can accommodate both the Volvo D4's and the Yanmar 315's with a generator and extra fuel. The D6 Volvo will accommodate extra fuel, but a generator will be extremely tight and unserviceable. The extra fuel is added by installing two 28 gallon saddle tanks outboard of the engine room where the water and waste tanks are normally located. This is the same configuration as the standard gas boat which brings the total capacity to 256 gallons. The water and waste tanks are then moved to the front of the engine room. We redesigned the water and waste tanks so they would take up less room in the engine room and still have the same capacity. When we redesigned the deck in ' 05 we made the engine room larger by moving the aft bulkhead back. Let me know if there are any more questions."

        My second e-mail............

        Thank you for your quick responses. I had a couple of followup questions. The best I can tell the Yanmar-315(47.4" LOA) is 9.3 inches shorter than the Volvo D6(56.7"LOA) and 3.8 inches shorter than the Cummins QSD-4.2(51.2" LOA).......Do you think it would be possible to install a generator with the Cummins QSD-4.2 or is the Yanmar so tight to begin with that the loss of 3.8 inches would be too much to make it possible? I know that this is probably a more difficult question than it might appear because sometimes additional factors like the shape of the engine or the placement of other components can be just as important to servicability as general dimensions.

        Keith's reply to e-mail#2........

        >>>"The Yanmar 315 has approx. 9" between it and the genset at the closest point. The Volvo D6 is approx. 5" longer than the Yanmar with the same gear, but they specify a 7" area forward of the engine for service. This makes the D6 and genset combination too tight for service. From the limited time that I have looked at the 4.2 Cummins dimensions, it appears to be approx. 2" longer than the Yanmar. It seems that the 4.2 Cummins would fit with a genset, however until we looked at it closely, I couldn't say for sure."

        >>>"I don't mind if this information is shared on the site, as long as it is understood that there may be factors that could affect the installation of any engine. If a customer was interested enough in the Cummins we would certainly be willing to look into building one, however we have not yet."

        The QSD4.2 comes in 270hp, 320hp and 350hp I didn't ask him if they all could be used. I think the combination of service availability, power and economy would make this a killer engine for the CC28.

        A couple of other interesting things is to look at the rated fuel capacity in the new specifications and also trolling valves are also available on the CC28 now(according to the 2007 price sheet)........
        Luke

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        • #5
          D4's =26 knots

          You won't get 28 knots cruise out of D4's in any sort of loaded boat in warm weather. I get an honest 26 at 3150, loaded for bear, and perhaps 27 and change on the way home w/ a half tank or less. Top end is 32. As Doc says; times I can cruise faster than 26 offshore are few and far between anyways. I find it almost impossible to keep the boat in the water at more than 25 knots in more than 3' seas. Eventually; every 10th or 20th wave she'll come off the top of one and want to launch.

          My mechanic says my CC28 w/ 260 is the fastest of 4 in the yard, 2002 Yanmar 6LP; Cummins 4B250 and surprising to me, faster than one of the early CC32's which I think is underpowered. He's a big guy and appreciates the servicability of the D4's versus the longer Yanmar's; he also (this is new england) thinks a generator reduces front end servicability to the point no one will go in there. Of course I have the old, old engine room which is both shorter and a narrower hatch than the new 28's.

          Whatever you buy - I suggest you open the hatch all the way; do the headfirst dive between the engine rooms and consider the access to the belt from the front of the engines. I would also recommend the saddle tanks; my entire offshore season is limited by fuel management issues on the 210 gallon tank - am I really full; what's my fuel burn/mile; do I need the bladder or not, etc.

          56 gallons is almost 3 extra hr's cruise!

          Comment


          • #6
            Volvo 310 commonrail

            Bluefin, I took delivery of an '07 28' CC with Volvo D6 310HP commonrail July 06. The gear reduction is 2:1. The boat has a full tower and life raft mounted on the roof. My previous 28' CC had the Cummings 250HP. The difference in performance is unbelievable. The boat cruises at 29.5 knots at 3250 RPMs with a WOT of 33.5 knots at 3570 RPMs. At cruising speed, my combined fuel consumption is approx 24 gal/hr. The boat gets on plane surprisingly fast. With the boat fully loaded w/ fuel, ice, and 4 crew, the performance of the boat is unaffected. I have currently logged just under 300 hrs on it in the last 12 months and I have had no problems at all. I begged Mac to give me the D6 w/ the 370HP, but he refused to put the higher HP in the boat. The Volvo rep and Mac informed me that at 310hp, this engine is a commercial rated engine and is capable of being operated at WOT without worrying about damage to the motor. (Although I think running any engine like that is a bad idea) If you would like to come out to Massachusetts, I would be happy to take you for a ride before you place your order. Maybe if you are more persistent than I am, Mac will give you the 370hp as the boat would be a true beast with that engine configuration.....Hawk

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            • #7
              Prop's on the D6's?

              Are you swinging 18 X 26 Acme's on the D6's?

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              • #8
                Acme

                I'm swinging 18 x 20.5's Acme's with a .105 cup, but I have a 1.56:1 gear. Hawk may be using the 18 x 26's if he has the 2:1 gear.

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                • #9
                  Thanks everyone for the great feedback. It is extremely helpful.

                  Hawk -- I sent you a PM.

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                  • #10
                    I have 19X26 with.075 cup

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